F60
Gaslighting
January 22 2019
All up, I thought I'd explore the topic a bit to gain a deeper understanding considering the info available on it is largely based on relationships but gaslighting goes far outside that boundary judging by examples I've come across in my search to understand. And again of course, my experiences.
I've included a copy and paste via Google to give some basis to the OP.
Thanks to anyone who chooses to join in with their opinions and experiences. Peachy xo
Examples of GaslightingSo, are you a victim of gaslighting manipulation? Take a look at the following tell-tale signs of gaslighting behavior:1. Blatant lyingFirst, people who gaslight tell obvious lies. You know that they are lying. The issue is how they are lying with such ease. The gaslighter is setting up an abusive pattern. You begin to question everything and become uncertain of the simplest matters. This self-doubt is exactly what the gaslighter wants..2. Deny, Deny, DenyAgain, you know they said what they said. However, they completely deny ever saying it. The gaslighter may push the point and ask you to ‘prove it,’ knowing that you only have your memory of the conversation that they are denying happened. It starts to make you question your memory and your reality. You begin to wonder if the gaslighter is right, maybe they didn’t really ever say what you remember. Consequently, more and more often, you question your reality and accept theirs..3. Using what you love against youAdditionally, people who gaslight use what is closest to you against you. If you love your job, they will find issues with it. If you have children, the gaslighter may force you to believe you should never have had them. This abusive manipulation tactic causes the victim to question the foundation of themselves as well as what they hold close..4. The slow death of selfOne of the terrifying parts of gaslighting is the methodical timeline that the abuser uses. The manipulation happens gradually and over time the victim morphs into someone entirely different. The most confident human being can become a shell of a person without being aware of it in the process. The victim’s individual reality diminishes and becomes that of the abuser..5. Words vs. ActionsNotably, a person who gaslights talks and talks. However, their words mean nothing. Therefore, it is important to look at what they are doing. The issues lie in their abusive actions towards the victim..6. Love and flatteryA common technique of a person who gaslights is to tear you down and then build you back up, only to tear you down again. However, the uneasiness comes from the love and flattery. Whether you realize it or not, you are becoming used to being torn down. However, the praise may lead you to think that the abuser isn’t all that bad..7. ConfusionWithout a doubt, people crave stability, and the gaslighter knows this. The constant confusion that the abuser has instilled leads the victim to become desperate for clarity. More often than not, the victim searches for this clarity in the abuser, thus continuing the cycle and increasing the power that the abuser has..8. ProjectingIf the gaslighter is a liar and a cheater, they are now accusing you of being a liar and a cheater. You constantly feel like you need to defend yourself for things you haven’t done..9. “You’re crazy”The gaslighter knows you are already questioning your sanity. The gaslighter also knows that you search for clarity in the person who is purposefully causing the confusion. Therefore, when they call you crazy, you believe it..Furthermore, the gaslighter may also tell other people that you’re crazy. This way if you were ever to approach them for help with your abuser, they wouldn’t believe you. The gaslighter has given them a heads up that this would happen. You’re too “crazy” to be taken seriously..10. Everyone else is a liarThe abuser may also tell you that everyone else is against you and that they are all liars. Again, believing that everyone else is lying to you forces your sense of reality to be further blurred. People who gaslight want their victims to turn to them for everything so that they can continue the abuse..Ultimately, the quicker you can pick up on these gaslighting techniques, the better luck you will have to avoid a gaslighter’s abuse and maintain the distinct reality of your circumstances.
Comments
RHP User
5 years ago
Ok mate, go easy, Have you taken this to a professional? I’m hoping?!
This is a forum, you could get a lot of answers here, some possibly not the ones you need.
Take this issue to your GP and ask to enter into a care plan. It’s through Medicare.
Deep down, we all care here, we don’t always show it though. These issues are best sorted with professional help. MHO.
Much love mate, take care.RHP User
5 years ago
They’ll probably tell you to come straight back here... lol.. death by a million cuts, what can you say? GTF outa there, easier said than done though. Acknowledge it, act on it.
XxRHP User
5 years ago
Sorry wasn’t being facetious. Just need glasses, thought it was from a young fella.
Ok... shoot now. 😐RHP User
5 years ago
I am OK.
TBH, I've been here a long while and don't expect too much in reply, it's more of an introspective outlook? 😉
Thank you 🍑RHP User
5 years ago
.
countrytouch82
5 years ago
In the country, we would just sum up such person as a Manipulative C**t...
RHP User
5 years ago
The term comes from a 1944 film starring Ingrid Bergman and Charles Boyer.They were husband and wife and he tried to anulate gerontocracy believing that she was losing er mind.
The term has been used to describe some of Donald Trumps. Behaviour during his election campaign.
In. My family my father was physically and emotionally abusive,He continually told my brother and I that we were stupid and worthless.
My brother believed him I did not. I ran away from home when I was seventeen.
People who engage in this behaviour have such fragile egos they want to build themselves by tearing others down. Don't listen to them,don't believe them and don't have anything to do with them.
Hugs QRHP User
5 years ago
My ex was not a full-time gaslighter, but whenever I objected to how she spoke to me or things she said to me (she could be and frequently was quite cruel) she would try to turn it all around and paint me as the villain. She would outright deny that she had said things. It worked well for her for many years - I doubted myself and my recollections whenever we argued - and then I worked out what it was that she was doing. After one particularly feisty set-to I suggested that maybe I needed to seek some kind of psychotherapy, as I clearly had problems with inventing things in my head, and she suggested this was a good idea. Fancy that - the woman you love trying to pack you off to a shrink in order to win an argument.
I started to confront her about it during our arguments - I would say to her ''I was fucking well here remember, I know what you said, do you think I start arguments for fun?" and she would still deny, deny, deny. Either that or (eventually) there would be a weak concession that she may have said something like that, but she only said it because of something I did (I would call this technique ''the flip''). So even if you won, you lost. She made absolutely sure of it.
I have given some thought as to why people do this - in my exe's case, I truly think she just omitted, or subconsciously erased, any memory of any bad thing that she may have done. I often think she truly didn't remember. The whys and wherefores I'll leave to other more qualified people. It doesn't change the experience for me though, and didn't change the fact that I realized that Number 4 in the list above was occurring, and had the good sense to nope the fuck out of there.RHP User
5 years ago
Gawd Gr8, I'm hoping he lets the country move ahead eventually, he's like a child chucking a tantrum! I'm hoping it was fake news I heard that he might be voted back in for another term. 😳
RHP User
5 years ago
You have such a way with words, you're killing me. Language is getting a bit faffy isn't it. 🍑 😉
RHP User
5 years ago
Hugs, and more hugs.
I can relate, had the exact same thing, literally forced to say I was stupid because I misunderstood her accent. Bowl. Ball. That does something to your soul if you let it.
Thank you for sharing that piece of your life, you're a strong woman. And for your very wise words at the end! Taken to heart 🍑RHP User
5 years ago
OMG
Your ex is a classic example about how it's not necessarily deliberate. I think some actually gaslight themselves. Of course I'm not trying to excuse the behaviour!
More power to you for getting out of that, you provide the reality of why so many stay in relationships as long as they do and demonstrate that leaving an abusive relationship can be done. It just does your head in doesn't it.
So you know, I appreciate a lot of what you have to say in the forums. Hugs, 🍑 😘RHP User
5 years ago
Quoting 'OkeyDoke45'
My ex was not a full-time gaslighter, but whenever I objected to how she spoke to me or things she said to me (she could be and frequently was quite cruel) she would try to turn it all around and paint me as the villain. She would outright deny that she had said things. It worked well for her for many years - I doubted myself and my recollections whenever we argued - and then I worked out what it was that she was doing. After one particularly feisty set-to I suggested that maybe I needed to seek some kind of psychotherapy, as I clearly had problems with inventing things in my head, and she suggested this was a good idea. Fancy that - the woman you love trying to pack you off to a shrink in order to win an argument.
I started to confront her about it during our arguments - I would say to her ''I was fucking well here remember, I know what you said, do you think I start arguments for fun?" and she would still deny, deny, deny. Either that or (eventually) there would be a weak concession that she may have said something like that, but she only said it because of something I did (I would call this technique ''the flip''). So even if you won, you lost. She made absolutely sure of it.
I have given some thought as to why people do this - in my exe's case, I truly think she just omitted, or subconsciously erased, any memory of any bad thing that she may have done. I often think she truly didn't remember. The whys and wherefores I'll leave to other more qualified people. It doesn't change the experience for me though, and didn't change the fact that I realized that Number 4 in the list above was occurring, and had the good sense to nope the fuck out of there.
-------
That sounds awful Okey.So sorry to hear this happened to you.Hugs mate.I'm so fortunate I've never experience this.Other types of shit from people yeah but not this, thank goodness.RHP User
5 years ago
This describes my sister perfectly. The worst thing you can do is stand up to people like that, they’ll go out of their way to make you miserable. 4 years after cutting her out of my life I still get people telling me about the horrible shit she says, or sending me screenshots of stuff my sister writes on Facebook about me.
It’s fucked, you really do start question yourself...”DID I do something horrible? Maybe I should just apologise again anyway..?”
I became so concerned about my mental health I had to see a psychologist about it and get someone else to look over all our communication, they assured me I wasn’t losing my mind but I still can’t make sense of it 🤷🏼♀️RHP User
5 years ago
Just remember that her behaviour,her rage has got nothing to do with you. Even now four years later she is still trying to hold you hostage.Just delete ,delete,don't even read those comments and I would question the motivations of those "friends"who are so keen to share her cruelties with you.
Be strong,know your worth because your opinion of you is the only opinion that matters.
Hugs Q xxRHP User
5 years ago
Please excuse my focus on my experiences, it's how I relate.
I cut my foster mother off in the end. She couldn't even send a birthday card or Christmas card without some criticism within. I keep them all because I have few memories from that time and they reassure me I'm not the nasty, useless bitch she made me out to be. Even in my records it says how she blamed me and my foster father for her leaving because we ganged up on her... I was 10. Pity she ignore the bit where he was a filthy using arsehole and didn't bother to report that to welfare.
I was heading in to say much the same as Q. In particular the people who keep your pain fresh by sharing stuff you don't really need to know. I had a similar experience after I broke up with my ex and got together with hubby 30+ years ago. Hubby lived at the house of a friend in common who delighted in sharing what my ex had been saying. He wasn't too happy when I told him I just didn't want to know for my own peace of mind. That friendship didn't end well, but hubby and I are happy. <3
Don't forget to take into account how those past experiences effect you in the now, there aren't too many who have the bravery and faith in yourself that you showed to get the fuck out of there! Now just to silence the reminders that you don't need. It will likely forever be a moment of pride and relief for you. Hugs, PeachyRHP User
5 years ago
Qefenta3, I take it with a pinch of salt these days. It bothers other people more than me because since I’ve stopped paying her attention they now have to listen to her hate campaign, lol. I’m now the person I feel least sorry for in all of this.
RHP User
5 years ago
Peachy, some of the best conversations happen when we share and draw similarities from our own personal experiences, so that’s fine with me 😊
It’s funny to gauge their reaction when you tell them you don’t want to know, isn’t it? One woman actually seemed to panic, asking “but do you know what she’s saying about you?”, i again replied that I don’t want to know and she just stood there, choking on her words...hahha, I left her there and walked away really curious but glad I didn’t let her tell me. I never bothered with that woman after that though, she was willing to upset me for a bit of drama and gossip, yuck!
As recently as last week I got sent screenshots...this person I didn’t get cranky with though because I believe they shared them with me because if it was happening to them they’d want me to do the same. I do wish they’d asked before sending them though, you can’t read that shit and not get upset, then I have to spend the next however long trying not to react which for me is bloody hard sometimes! Haha
It’s sad that anyone does that sort of thing to someone else, you can only hope that it ends up making you stronger & better somehow, because it definitely has the potential to ruin a person’s self worth.
Thank you for sharing xx
Tall74nHard9
5 years ago
that most of the populaton will experience this type of behaviour at some time during their lifetime - whether it be though family, "friends", or the workforce. Some may experience it more than once through different channels.
I have also been in the position of having experienced this form of behaviour, but fortunately I always have been strong of mind and managed to rebuff and eventually at the right times have been able to draw away from the offenders.
Definitely not always an easy path to navigate, and also not always easy to get away from the problem. Great deal of patience required.
TallRHP User
5 years ago
Gaslighting- a manipulative tool, skilfully used by narcissists!
It’s basically their way of turning it around on you to make you doubt yourself and question your version or interpretation of events. “You’re overreacting” “you’re too sensitive” “ I didn’t say it like that” with tiny minute changes to the conversation.
I’m sorry you had those experiences, I’ve endured similar from a narcissistic mother and sister.
I had a friend similar and yes you’ll find them in the dating world too.
I was able to seek Help from a professional and recognise the behaviours, I still get sucked in though 🤦🏻♀️
Definitely give NLP some thought or speak to someone. You’ll gain some confidence back and learn to recognise the signs and traits earlier.
Hugs 🤗RHP User
5 years ago
I like the way you think with your different points of view. Thank you.
Lol, I'm reactive too, maybe making myself a hypocrite here but I forgot I did ask for copies of messages about me that I saw recently in the search for the truth. Words by people I have no respect for, it still hurt. It was confirming enough to be reassuring in the long run though and reinstate some confidence. And boom, I found my voice again.
There's nothing quite like working your way through a fog, and finally getting some clearer vision is there however that insight is gained.
Thank you for sharing xox PeachyRHP User
5 years ago
Lionsdoll, thank you for your kind thoughts, I am a Forgotten Australian, I have plenty of support I'm happy to report, the best of it knowing people like myself and having them as friends. Getting a grip on the facts was a relief I can't describe. And the experience a lesson in life that has proven to be more beneficial than not I reckon. More power to you as you learn and grow.
As you say Tall, I do understand it is something used more often in general society than is realised. That's what a lot of the examples I've been reading up on led me to believe. It helps to dispel the feeling of having been a victim, thankfully.
Peachy
madotara69
5 years ago
'Empathy is the experience of understanding another person's thoughts, feelings, and condition from his or her point of view, rather than from one's own.'
I want to bring something, something quoted from another thread Peachy. Noted that the depth of your understanding in what 'gaslighting' 'it' or 'is' or 'that' was when referred, suggested thus in parts thereof; Search Google for gaslighting..copy paste dictionary snatch.
Gaslighting does not at all rely on knowing anyone and I suggest anyone who leapt to agreeing with that have a deeper look into it and understand it is not a personal thing at all. Happy to bore you with a snatch from Google to support my point rather than just denying yours.
How do you feel now about what you put together, other than that winning feeling, Peachy?
Mado
Mado Tara xxRHP User
5 years ago
A) As I said here, I have gained 'some' understanding. And sought for more understanding at the same time as in asking for other people's opinions.
B) I can say in all good conscience that on a later post on the thread you took that snatch from that I agreed to disagree as well as offering an apology in reference to the early post shown in your post here.
C) I guess your statement about agreeing to disagree on that same thread meant nothing. How do you feel about winning?
D) Me, I posted this thread because of the relief I felt after some very disturbing experiences over the years. Thank you for the empathy.
Cheers, PeachyRHP User
5 years ago
So I checked before we end up in a fruitless back and forth, and I did not offer the apology I meant to on that thread, I believe it was because I did not know how to phrase it. I hope I have done a good enough job now. My empathy lay with the OP who was judged on a few words as are so many men on similar topics, who did return and accept the advice offered to him, so I would have hoped he would have been offered due respect rather than suspicion that couldn't be backed up.Cheers, Peachy
madotara69
5 years ago
I suggest anyone who leapt to agreeing with that have a deeper look into it and understand it is not a personal thing at all.
I'm not seeking an apology Peachy, If I felt the OP was offended by me caring to choices his wife, are her own and together come to others for advice, he bowed out softly, not a word from her.
You were wrong by labelling me as showing traits with gaslighting, by making it, I denied face value whatever way put, merely pointing out the irony by face value nill to the OP and his couple profile in his name, so the point you made was not realistic, fruitless indeed.
It's MsJonesy, empathy I feel compelled, by the suggestion shallow she leapt in to agree, I hope it was not a personal experience she agreed with, not at her expense, for that I am sorry and ask forgiveness may she choose so.RHP User
5 years ago
I have apologised on the thread to you and your liker/s, so now considering your issues have nothing to do with this thread, I have no intent to further entertain the confusion I am feeling from your posts here considering they are obviously more suited to the thread we were posting on originally. Peachy
RHP User
5 years ago
I suggest copying and pasting some of the writing and googling it.
From Healthy Place
Gaslighting Definition, Techniques and Being Gaslighted
Gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse where the abuser manipulates situations repeatedly to trick the victim into distrusting his or her own memory and perceptions. Gaslighting is an insidious form of abuse. It makes victims question the very instincts that they have counted on their whole lives, making them unsure of anything. Gaslighting makes it very likely that victims will believe whatever their abusers tell them regardless as to their own experience of the situation. Gaslighting often precedes other types of emotional and physical abuse because the victim of gaslighting is more likely to remain in other abusive situations as well.
The term "gaslighting" comes from the 1938 British play "Gas Light" wherein a husband attempts to drive his wife crazy using a variety of tricks causing her to question her own perceptions and sanity. Gas Light was made into a movie both in 1940 and 1944.
Gaslighting Techniques and Examples
There are numerous gaslighting techniques which can make gaslighting more difficult to identify. Gaslighting techniques are used to hide truths that the abuser doesn't want the victim to realize. Gaslighting abuse can be perpetrated by either women or men.
"Withholding" is one gaslighting technique where the abuser feigns a lack of understanding, refuses to listen and declines sharing his emotions. Gaslighting examples of this would be:
"I'm not listening to that crap again tonight.""You're just trying to confuse me."
Another gaslighting technique is "countering," where an abuser will vehemently call into question a victim's memory in spite of the victim having remembered things correctly.
"Think about when you didn't remember things correctly last time.""You thought that last time and you were wrong."
These techniques throw the victim off the intended subject matter and make them question their own motivations and perceptions rather than the issue at hand.
It is then that the abuser will start to question the experiences, thoughts and opinions more globally through statements said in anger like:
"You see everything in the most negative way.""Well you obviously never believed in me then.""You have an overactive imagination."
"Blocking" and "diverting" are gaslighting techniques whereby the abuser again changes the conversation from the subject matter to questioning the victim's thoughts and controlling the conversation. Gaslighting examples of this include:
"I'm not going through that again.""Where did you get a crazy idea like that?""Quit bitching.""You're hurting me on purpose."
"Trivializing" is another way of gaslighting. It involves making the victim believe his or her thoughts or needs aren't important, such as:
"You're going to let something like that come between us?"
Abusive "forgetting" and "denial" can also be forms of gaslighting. In this technique, the abuser pretends to forget things that have really occurred; the abuser may also deny things like promises that have been made that are important to the victim. An abuser might say,
"What are you talking about?""I don't have to take this.""You're making that up."
Some gaslighters will then mock the victim for their "wrongdoings" and "misperceptions."
Gaslighting Psychology
The gaslighting techniques are used in conjunction to try to make the victim doubt their own thoughts, memories and actions. Soon the victim is scared to bring up any topic at all for fear they are "wrong" about it or don't remember the situation correctly.
The worst gaslighters will even create situations that allow for the usage of gaslighting techniques. An example of this is taking the victim's keys from the place where they are always left, making the victim think she has misplaced them. Then "helping" the victim with her "bad memory" find the keys.
Are You a Victim of Gaslighting Emotional Abuse?
According to author and psychoanalyst Robin Stern, Ph.D., the signs of being a victim of gaslighting emotional abuse include:
1) You are constantly second-guessing yourself.2) You ask yourself, "Am I too sensitive?" a dozen times a day.3) You often feel confused and even crazy at work.4) You're always apologizing to your mother, father, boyfriend,, boss.5) You can't understand why, with so many apparently good things in your life, you aren't happier.6) You frequently make excuses for your partner's behavior to friends and family.7) You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses.8) You know something is terribly wrong, but you can never quite express what it is, even to yourself.9) You start lying to avoid the put downs and reality twists.10) You have trouble making simple decisions.11) You have the sense that you used to be a very different person - more confident, more fun-loving, more relaxed.12) You feel hopeless and joyless.13) You feel as though you can't do anything right.14) You wonder if you are a "good enough" girlfriend/ wife/employee/ friend; daughter.15) You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses.RHP User
5 years ago
11) You have the sense that you used to be a very different person - more confident, more fun-loving, more relaxed.
RHP User
4 years ago
I forgot how this thread ended up.
Thought I'd bump this thread up, and decided to go ahead anyway.
Gaslighters will make it feel like everything is your fault.
They'll tell you how you should behave and criticise every little thing that really doesn't matter in the scheme of things. All in the effort to make you feel less than you are.
They'll do it indirectly so you have nothing to get a grip on, questioning you when you question them instead of giving a straight up answer. They'll act like the victim should you do much as dare imply they are anything less than perfect. They'll twist what you say to make sure.
They know your triggers and they'll use them mercilessly.
They'll convince people around you that you're the one with the problem.
All the while having a good laugh at your expense.
I've been reading stories from people who suffer from gaslighting and that seems to have helped my understanding of it in a experience way rather than just theory. So awful how there are people who don't think twice before going out of their way to treat people like shit.
I just want to give people a big hug and tell them how they're worth so much more. Just knowing that is the difference that change everything.
I've been so glad for the friends who have just quietly been there for me. I know I can buy into my anxiety sometimes and the best ones for me have been there quietly reminding me of the fun to be had lol. Peachy, cheersRHP User
4 years ago
“One of the first steps in freeing yourself from a gaslighting relationship, then, is to acknowledge how unpleasant and hurtful you find this Emotional Apocalypse. If you hate being yelled at, you have the right to insist that yelling not be a part of your disagreements. Maybe some other woman wouldn't mind the loud voice, but you do. If that makes you sensitive, so be it. You have the right to set limits where you want them, not where some mythical other, "less sensitive" woman wants them.”
― Robin SternRHP User
4 years ago
“One can only return to the fact that even the most ordinary, good-hearted, intelligent people are literally prone to believing the most blatantly nonsensical untruths. And this comes from the realization that there are some opinions and some beliefs so incredibly inane, we may actually on occasion feel insane for not believing them; and that is probably because in giving the benefit of the doubt we self-doubt, we convince ourselves into lame passivity and blind acceptance, we tell ourselves, 'Maybe I'm just missing something here.”
― Criss Jami, HealologyRHP User
4 years ago
“Remember, a fact is a fact, no matter how hard the liars amongst you might try hushing it up.”
― Billy Childish, My FaultRHP User
4 years ago
The grey rock method is a technique that removes the fascination and entertainment from a narcissist's life. The grey rock method is a practice where an individual becomes emotionally non-responsive, boring, and virtually acts like a rock.
RHP User
4 years ago
Wait—So What Is Gaslighting?In short, gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse “in which information is twisted or spun, selectively omitted to favor the abuser, or false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception, and sanity.”
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