Educating Mike, the continuing series of pertinent questions. How to have a discussion where one’s gender cannot be used against one

February 16 2023

Ok there is a lot of angst going on at present and I find it difficult to get involved when gender is used as a weapon to get one’s point across, terms like mansplaining and womansplaining, the Patriarchy, Feminazi etc are all inflammatory terms that can be used to provoke a certain reaction that distracts from important topics.

My question is, is there are way to have intelligent, mature discussions without highlighting one’s gender to make a point? Because how can one gender ever hope to understand the other when an innocent question is asked and the questioner or a respondent is labelled with some gender specific term to inflame the situation because someone took offence to what is being asked?

Be nice when answering.

Comments

  • madotara69

    madotara69

    a year ago

    How to be sure it’s an innocent question ?
    It’s the sandpit Mike, take your threads, Educating Mike, they appear to run on topic with a mixed bag of thoughts by all the dirty fuckers, why ?
    Because you’re polite, you host the thread with thoughtful replies, agreeing or disagreeing depending and that’s healthy debate, if things heat up, it does because sex on topic with all sexuality’s, kinks, casual sex lifestyles and a plethora of emotions due to experiences, boundaries and mixed with casual dating formalities looking for love, also many deceptive choices going on, so there’s emotions of betrayal and manipulation, especially narcissistic and antisocial behavioural types that thrive as keyboard warriors, also there’s many folk been hurt, traumatised and find it extremely difficult to trust the innocent questions, that’s how the worst experiences begin.
    It’s a mix of the question, the Intensions, the profile details listed and at least if you attempt being honest and express your emotions, not easy by texting, maybe it’s more testing than insulted,
    I get away with the whole kit and caboodle’s because mostly my posts are around a lifetime of treating Tara with all respects as an equal, her own person who makes her own choices and I support her and them, I love her and still do today like the first day we fell in love.
    I defend women who are blamed or unable to defend themselves, and if reading a thread from a partner up to no good, we don’t want the innocent person to see us all playing along to something so humiliating and not consensual (rule of rules)used likely very much different than posed as Title and descriptions to elicit a prescribed response.

    Great topic Mike,

    Here’s a thing

    “Unkind words and thoughtless snubs, are but the echoes of a small and frightened person.”

    Helps to understand some people too without being offended by them.

    And I’m an angel.

    Mado
    Mado Tara xx

  • nightingale8

    nightingale8

    a year ago

    Your assumptions are flawed. The whole “just asking questions” is rubbish because in asking those questions you feed the listener/reader your assumed facts about the world and direct the discussion. Women prepared to buck societal expectations are exactly those who will question those flaws and maybe even direct some of those discussions.

  • Rising_Phoenix

    Rising_Phoenix

    a year ago

    GENERALLY SPEAKING (thought I’d better type that bit extra loud, lol) we look, act, feel, communicate and respond differently depending on gender, so no I don’t think a mature, intelligent conversation can be had without acknowledging that. We don’t need to use it as a weapon against each other but acknowledging certain generalised behaviours and reactions is often necessary, particularly when speaking in a group setting, and it’s often not just relevant but also important. .
    Sure we shouldn’t fight like cats and dogs but the hope is that we all gain knowledge and understanding that helps us become better at interacting with others in a way that gets us and or them what we want.
    I actually think we’d benefit from talking more about basic needs and instincts of men and women then figuring out how we can accommodate and indeed compliment each other.
    The world has become a selfish rat race, I think those of us who do scrap in the forums are probably all wanting the same thing when it comes down to it but good things but let’s face it, negotiations cause arguments and sometimes we just don’t care enough to be gentle with each other. You and I are not going to solve that problem in this discussion I’m afraid...

  • Libertine001

    Libertine001

    a year ago

    I don't believe there is in an open forum such as this. There's such a wide variety of folk and opinions that will never agree on any one subject in a respectful way.
    You have everything on the spectrum from misogynistic males to feminist females all of which do their upmost to discredit the other regardless of logic and rationale.
    The forums can be a place where you can learn and laugh but on the other hand it can be full of spite and resentment of which the mods do their best to control.
    Take what you will from here and disregard the crap..

    Happy hunting


    Libertine

  • Ex007

    Ex007

    a year ago

    What you speak of is somewhat difficult as not just individuals seeing things differently. But here is food for thought regarding genders.

    As a female, we live our lives in the constant pursuit of keeping ourselves safe. Yes keeping ourselves safe.

    Here are some of the things women do and are conscious of that men may not be. Even though these behaviours do become an unconscious behaviour for all women eventually.

    We actively seek out car parks that are in safe places according to the time of day.

    When walking or sitting down we are fully aware of the men in our vicinity.

    Before leaving friends or the shopping centre we make sure our car keys are in our hands.

    When going on a first date we tell a trusted friend where we are going and we check in with them via text and let them know when we are home.

    Women are by nature verbally defensive because they do not possess the physical strength men do.

    Further:-

    If a man wants a woman to be feminine and vulnerable they need to work on their security game and make her feel safe. This is established when words match actions.

    Words not matching actions is the biggest undermining behaviour men can participate in hands down. It's a massive red flag to a woman when they don't. Which makes a woman feel unsafe and unable to trust that man.

    If a woman does not feel safe she will be more protective of herself physically and mentally. She will have walls up and be more masculine and controlling in her disposition.

    If a man is with a woman who is controlling it's because the man has let his masculinity erode to the point of being unreliable. Being unreliable undermines how safe women feel around them.

    As a result, the female feels she needs to step into the masculine take control because their man can not be trusted as he fails to carry through. (actions don't match words)

    This is an educational explanation of behaviour it is not a finger-pointing excise.

    What makes a man
    He stands true in his principles
    He protects and provides (creates safety)
    He's a man of his word ALWAYS
    He is a leader

    Provide or be these things to the woman you want in your life. And she will make you feel capable, powerful, confident, respected and admired.

    Ladies encourage your man to be these things, make him feel this way. Then in the service of any suffering in a man's life, it will be completely irrelevant.

    Plain English

    Men protect, provide and make her feel safe by matching your actions and words.

    Ladies when he does this tell him how he makes you feel e.g. I admire you, you make me proud, you make me feel safe.

    Do this and that man will flog himself at work to provide for you and his family.

    Why? Because you validated him, you're allowing him to be the masculine leader (king) of the household. Which allows you to be the Queen 💋.

    Bring back the strong powerhouse of the masculine & feminine relationship. 🤴👸

  • Sawadee

    Sawadee

    a year ago

    While ever there's different genders ... there will be differences.. . Being bought up by a single mother and older sister who l spent many years looking after and being protective of.. Plus the fact l have some really good female friends both at work and social ? Yet here ' ive been accused of being some sort of 2 headed monster ?
    There will always be someone who reads into something thats not even there ?. I know ive been guilty of that over the years and l regret that , but once its out there' you cant take it back...

  • RHP User

    RHP User

    a year ago

    OP, what do you mean “when gender is used as a weapon to get one’s point across”?
    ..
    WORDS can be used as weapons, but those same words can be accepted in their literal sense without contortion. It depends on the purpose of the writer, surely? And, just speculating here, the mindset of the reader.
    ..
    You ask specifically if there is a way to have an “intelligent, mature discussion without highlighting one’s gender to make a point”? Wouldn’t the subject of the discussion dictate that!?!
    ..
    For instance, if you’re talking about teen pregnancies, and reviewed the data behind them. Where of all teen pregnancies (pregnant female is a teen), only 1/4 of the fathers (male) were also teens. Meaning that 3/4 of the fathers were adult men (male).
    ..
    Or, if you were discussing sexual assaults towards/to/on men, where 3% were committed by women but 97% were committed by men.
    ..
    How can you leave gender out of those discussions?
    ..
    And when you say “innocent question” it raises a Red Flag. Almost as if you know that the question wasn’t “innocent”. Seems like it would at least be passive aggressive, or at worst, be deliberately inflammatory.
    ..
    And I’m not sure why you wrote “Be nice when answering”. Do you not feel like the ‘moderators’s warning’ in the comment box is sufficient?

  • madotara69

    madotara69

    a year ago

    Sawadee, did you really seeadee
    You seem to be having troubles understanding my articulated sentences too Sawadee repetedee both Mike and My D’sseesawadeedee doubledee DD

    Quite simple stuff, considering sir Sawadee closes corporate deals while having sex on the phone, what’s that then not Dr.. Mr ccd, whsotp, she saw Sawadee
    It’s difficult understanding how you write Sawadee … but you surely must have spoken enthusiastically closing the deal of a lifetime living the lifestyle having the time of your life having the greatest sex living the life, bet Shesawstars Sawadee living the Dream Sawadee that’s a sign from the universe
    I used to dream about the letter q sawaque but couldn’t remember where it was on my typewriter buggered up u all the time, but I learned to remember where was the Q typing to Miss Qefenta which was an ancient word for vagina lol no u like Qantas jet liner airplanes
    ‘Leaving on a jet plane
    Don’t know when I’ll be back again’
    Back to you Sawadee you’re very cryptic, did you really see a D , Mike’s friend wants to know ? Think he means Dream 💭 just quietly.
    😉

  • Hawt1

    Hawt1

    a year ago

    Frankly.. I find it impossible with some.
    They can be too far down a rabbit hole to take on the literal meaning of your words.
    You say the sky is blue.. they hear the sky is red.. and it devolves from there.
    With these types it's just better for my sanity to walk away.
    I have seen some discussions online where it can be seen taken to task and task taken.. points were proven and taken.
    But I am afraid I do not have the mental acuity to perform such gymnastics and far less patience.
    Just my experience in such things.

  • RHP User

    RHP User

    a year ago

    I think it may be helpful to many people reading this post, started by a man who claims that OTHERS are using “gender as a weapon to get one’s point across” . . . . to scroll to near the bottom of the the forum post “General Reply” and see a conversation between OP and myself. Specifically his response posted to my comment where he reacts to my conversation with another RHPer, DeepestPurple.
    ..
    Because, while OP appears to be calm and rationale and even appeasing in THIS forum post that he has started, in private - he’s a very different entity.
    ..
    The fact that OP has written a whole forum post, misrepresenting a private conversation between he and I, and I chose to keep the disturbing conversation to myself until reading his comment published in 16.2.23, says an awful lot about integrity and transparency.

  • deepestpurple

    deepestpurple

    a year ago

    One of the biggest issues I have with political discourse within our culture is that it is focused heavily on dividing people on issues and demonising the other side. IMHO, there is not enough energy put towards attempting to understand alternate points of view, finding common ground and working towards solutions that everyone can be happy with or discussing fair and reasonable compromises. It is an all or nothing approach to conflict resolution.

    Things such as assuming bad intent and then painting oneself as a victim based on this assumption. Attacking people for their unconscious biases (all people have bias). Profiling an entire group based on the actions of individuals within that group. Posting snappy quips or memes that sound intelligent and factual but are actually fallacious and disingenuous when thought about critically. All these things serve to alienate people who you disagree with and move the issue further away from an actual resolution.

    So what do these behaviours achieve? I see them as a performance for people who already agree with the person making their points. People seem a lot more intent on raising one's prestige within the hierarchy of their own side than about affecting any change in the minds of the opposing side. They want to have their friends cheer them on as they dunk on the other side and enjoy the feelings of support, camaraderie and esteem that come from that. Indeed within that paradigm there is a disincentive to find a resolution to the issue because then there would be no other side to dunk on and the leaders of the heirarchy derive their status from the existence of the conflict.

    But within the realpolitik of making changes in our society it is heavily counter-productive for a minority or marginalised group to attack and alienate the (often silent) majority or dominant group. What might feel like winning, kicking goals against the other team as your mates cheer you on is, in reality, existing in an echo chamber while pushing away the people one needs to connect with and share ideas and experiences in order to change minds and secure the necessary compromises in order to shift the status-quo.

  • badboyhere

    badboyhere

    a year ago

    A question for the OP - with all of the back and forth positioning that has occurred in this post one thing I find has not yet been asked. Are you now educated?

  • madotara69

    madotara69

    a year ago

    I didn’t expect a knock not a knock, I’d expect it’s a had to be there joke in third persons affairs, awkward if the joke’s personally hurting you, I apologise sincerely, I promise my Intensions are for us all to get on in much better condition divided, sorry is a start and forgive equally as brave to bring closure to endless turmoil with mixed emotions swirling in circles without an answer to lay blame in the emotions of empathy’s feelings fade to grey and one day hate to blame and hating doesn’t get better, it gets worse and when one hates themselves, leads to the topic on topic in the sandpit and the brave souls of the fora brings spirits to the red hot pie’s love lust and all emotions to ‘Live Baby Live’ INXS’ and silly thoughts compelled ‘Who Can it Be Now’ ‘Men at Work’
    ~run hide~

  • madotara69

    madotara69

    a year ago

    What if … say someone had been for a decade posting little, silly little things to someone else for a decade in the forums for example and the whole time at one of the two of the someone’s was admiring the other one’s wonderfull tits, breasts, bosoms, boobs but not limited..
    Would that be some form of history?
    Like hey I’ve had a thing with you in my mind for ten years and never once said anything that resembled and incriminated myself by mention of the Theraputic enlightenment those tits provided, because obviously it never happened as tho whole time infatuated with in mind.
    Can’t one just say hey for ten years no matter what has been read, the whole time your toys have been awesome for my better wellbeing and that’s a thing ..
    Dunno…

  • Zippycactus

    Zippycactus

    a year ago

    And right here is the whole reason I now no longer find the forums engaging. It’s quite dismal actually

  • EarthQueen

    EarthQueen

    a year ago

    People need to sometimes drop the need to win or be right. If the ego gets inflamed too quickly doors shut and there can be no common ground established. But sometimes people are just incredibly annoying as well and the conversation is boring. So then you just leave.

  • coolnhotnok

    coolnhotnok

    9 months ago

    Great point. Goading a reaction is really just attention seeking in my opinion, & I actually feel some compassion for people that need to do this. There's some story about how some tribe in some African locality actually pools around someone that's done something wrong because that person needs the care & support of the tribe (otherwise they wouldn't be doing anything wrong) - seems like the way to go at times - though I wonder how said tribe handles it when it doesn't go right...

    The point I normally make is this: if you can't remove gender, or reverse gender, from your statement without feeling like you're offending someone, you're more likely than not in the wrong. My point here is that double-standards are pretty shitty. A while back I used to read articles that Medium decided I'd like on relationships. Most of those articles were outright misandrist. I had a quick look - I can't find any - shame - would have been perfect. But here's something similar, from qanda recently "I don't normally listen to old white men". We get it - "old white men" - well, in my opinion, too many of those "old white men" in media & political leadership roles today, we could easily do better if they'd go away. What's good for the goose is good for the gander: if you can level it against someone else, someone else should be able to level it against you & you don't get your panties in a bunch about it.

    I think there's a lot of misery around. *sshole bosses; Ukraine; climate change; inflation; broken promises - etc. & I think that creeps in to everyone's psyche at one point or another & then comes out as misappropriated "kick the dog" anger. That's it, in my opinion. Sometimes people want to fight because they're hurting & they don't know what else to do. Just bear that in mind when you're arguing with someone. Normally I can slow people down on gender topics by saying "you know, my father was a good man", or "well, I once knew a girl that wasn't a Karen" (LOL! - JOKING! - no, no, not the pitchf.... ahhhh) :) We're all human.